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City:Milano IT
Personal Data:born: June 27 1979
Membership19years 74days ago.
Last Login16years 274days ago.
Last Move17years 66days ago.
Calsir is currently Offline!Send a mail to Calsir


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: Calsir - 18years 290days ago.
Message text
SteveMartin wrote:
In my opinion also, I think that a lot of the drive to change the fuel rules comes from players who tend to favour playing the German side. I have seen this for so long in the thirty five years or so that I have been playing wargames. Everyone wants to play the German side, with the neat uniforms, the neat tanks, the neat planes, etc. None of them want to play the big picture though, the overwhelming numbers arrayed against them, the lack of supplies, the lack of air superiority or naval superiortity, etc. They all seemed to have the same opinion, that the German military machine was so brilliant and invincible that only an incompetent Hitler and his political staff prevented them from overrunning the world. This is their idea of expert thinking and I believe we are seeing a prime example of it here in this discussion.


I don't get this. Either it is just a not so subtle flame-bait or else I don't understand why you wrote anything like this. I don't see why you bring out the good old trump card of AH without ever arguing against my points or justifying your arguments. Firstly, this is not WWII but the great war, or WWI.

Secondly, I enjoy playing as the triple entente and as the triple alliance (aka the Germans) both, and anybody can tell you that I have, in general, no preference except that I don't like to fly the Bristol or the Halberstadt because I simply cannot get them correctly .

Thirdly, my arguments don't stem from crypto-apology or overawe of German achievements, but from my knowledge of aircraft design and flight mechanics: should you like so I could tutor you in a crash course of basic flight mechanics, as you don't need to know aircraft design to understand WWI air combat. If you want I can show you why patrol/flight endurance has nothing to do with combat endurance. The math is not that hard.

Fourthly, your point about number superiority can easily be addressed in scenario design, rather than in some abstract "fuel" boxes. By the way, you might want to check about the story of a countryman of yours who was jumped by 60 Fokkers (according to a British newspaper article), and managed to shoot down 4 (yes, he got a VC for that).

Fifthly, you conjectured that scarcity of supply, lack of naval superiority () and air superiority should have influenced the duration and the odds of an air combat. There is a logical fallacy. Fuel scarcity could maybe cut a patrol short and reduce the number of sorties but it does not necessarily cut a combat short.


gugliandalf wrote:
IMHO, it doesn't make any sense.

No more than changing any other plane stat.


Lastly, to counter gugliandalf's point about game stats, while we could argue forever that Wright and Hall used questionable characteristics (check http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/bluemax/designnotes.html ) to compute aircraft statistics, which is beyond my point, my claim is that "fuel" is not structural, but contingent.

Also: prop driven airplanes are not cars, where speed has a strong effect on mileage. In WWI most engines (the rotaries) where unthrottleable (my spell checker fails me now) and fuel consumption did not depend on speed.

I hope I made myself clear and that someone (gugliandalf, I hope that now my arguments look sensible to you) will actually bother to read this long post.

--
Calsir

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18years 294days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 294days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 294days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 293days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 293days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 292days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 291days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 291days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 291days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     18years 290days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      18years 289days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       18years 289days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        18years 289days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         18years 289days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          18years 288days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 291days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 290days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 288days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 288days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 288days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 289days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 289days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 288days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 288days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 287days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 286days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
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18years 285days Nick Message for ksnake
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18years 286days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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