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City:Milano IT
Personal Data:born: June 27 1979
Membership19years 74days ago.
Last Login16years 274days ago.
Last Move17years 66days ago.
Calsir is currently Offline!Send a mail to Calsir


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: Calsir - 18years 293days ago.
Message text
SteveMartin wrote:
Well Killer1, Yes

Allied aircraft pretty consistently had greater endurance than their German counterparts. Coupled with other factors, such as prevailing wind advantage, more economical cruising, shorter ranges to target and overall greater abundance of fuel supplies, meant that the German pilots often had to break off the combat before the Allied fliers simply to avoid being turned into armed gliders.

To put it in simple terms, the DR I could stay in the air for about an hour and a half, while the Snipe could stay up for three hours. That would equate to 74 fuel points for the Snipe to be true to historical accuracy.

If you want to give German aircraft the same fuel loads as Allied aircraft, then you are giving them an advantage that they NEVER had and will destroy the game as it was designed.


Steve, I beg to dissent. Flight endurance and combat endurance are not necessarily related to each other. This whole issue has already been discussed before: check http://www.youplay.it/play/forum_showmessage.asp?msgid=32649 for a post of mine regarding energy management and wwi dogfights.

The point is, engines were not powerful enough to maintain dogfight manoeuvring without trading altitude for speed, and there were no afterburning or emergency power technologies that could drain a fuel tank in a matter of minutes. According to Phil Hall, an air combat lasted about 2 to 3 minutes. If you consider the endurance of the dr.I, you can easily see that there is a difference of at least an order of magnitude between its flight endurance and a typical air combat duration. However, in BM, the dr.I starts always with an energy disadvantage (call it fuel, if you prefer, fuel is a form of energy storage). The same can be said of the D.VII and other German aircrafts.

If you don't believe what I have just written, you can check "Quest for Performance - The Evolution of Modern Aircraft"
at http://www.hq.nasa.gov/pao/History/SP-468/cover.htm Extrapolated values for the performance of a few examples are in the appendices. It is quite straightforward to derive the same conclusions of mine. Of course, the can not be considered authoritative because it relies on the accuracy of historical published data.

Moreover, what do you mean by "prevailing wind advantage"? I think that would be even, since if it is easier for me to reach a target having a tail wind it will be harder to get back home with a head wind. Or is it related to the wind blowing combatants around?

Lastly, I do not understand all the fuss raised about an experimentation proposed by Nick. Nobody is going to compel you or anyone else to join non default games. While I agree that Phil did a great job, this game is far from being perfect, and I firmly think that everything is improvable and nothing is to be considered definitive and untouchable. Of course, I also find this game extremely fun, all its shortcomings notwithstanding.

Hope I made my point clear. Sorry for the long post, again .

--
Calsir

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18years 294days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 294days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 294days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 293days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 293days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 292days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 291days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 291days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 291days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     18years 290days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      18years 289days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       18years 289days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        18years 289days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         18years 288days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          18years 288days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 291days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 290days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 288days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 288days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 288days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 289days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 289days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 288days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 288days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 287days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 286days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
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18years 285days Nick Message for ksnake
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18years 286days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
18years 286days pokerguy Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
 18years 286days saltylog Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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