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City:Fort Wayne US
Personal Data:Male,
Membership20years 166days ago.
Last Login15years 155days ago.
Last Move17years 204days ago.
HeadMMoid is currently Offline!Send a mail to HeadMMoid


Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Suggestions, improvement, critics
Subject:Re: 30, 40, 50 of fuel
Posted by: HeadMMoid - 18years 293days ago.
Message text
TXWard wrote:
HeadMMoid wrote:
I continue to be appalled (and this is not directed just at SteveMartin) at the unwillingness of some players on this site to allow possible improvements in the game, especially when it does not appear that they will be forced to play by the modified rules.

I continue to be amazed by how worked up and bent out of shape you get when players state that in their opinion, your fuel changes are not an improvement to the game. If the equalized fuel games affect the scenario and plane stats, are we not forced to be affected by the change?

Also, there is logic behind the fuel rules as they are - the permanent penalty as you call it. The German designs sacrificed fuel for maneuverability. If the maneuverability of the aircraft isn't to be equalized, why should the fuel? The Germans, historically due to their aircraft design, were more likely to be forced to withdraw due to fuel concerns. Granted, it may not have occurred as frequently as needed for you to feel that the fuel stats are justified, but they were more likely nonetheless. How else should this be reflected in the game? Why shouldn't there be a penalty to the German designs if that is how they were designed in the first place.

Blue Max may be a tactical level game, but the big picture shouldn't just be ignored. The war wasn't conducted on a micro level, so the game takes that into account in a way.

Relax, have fun, and stick to the Allied planes if you really think it is that unfair. I'd bet there would be plenty of takers for you if you flew the Camel in some duels against the overly penalized DVII.

First, am I "bent out of shape"? No. I am frustrated at the intolerance of people on this site for change and possible improvements.

Second, these are not my fuel changes. Nick proposed them. I would prefer a modified version. Attribute things to their authors! Also, no one that I have seen (or at least cared about) has suggested changing maneuvers. That is a poor straw man argument.

Third, as for statistics, this is another concocted non-issue. The statistics can be maintained in any manner the site developers desire. If separating original fuel rules from others pleases them, then I'm sure that is what they will do. Personally I think the site statistics are pretty useless and haven't looked at them for months.

There is data and math behind the fuel rules, not logic or historical relevance. Apparently you feel that German pilots were not familiar with the concept of "fuel at break-off point, time to return to base". Even a brief perusal of the readily available anecdotal literature will show that German pilots timed the length of their missions in the same way that Allied pilots did. That is, the aircraft maintained combat reserves. It doesn't matter if the flight time was one-half hour or over two hours; not having fuel for a two or three minute fight would be the exception, not the rule you and others imagine.

How should the fuel issue be reflected in the game? It shouldn't! But if it must be present, at least it should be made to do its intended function - to limit the length of the game, not create mythical "permanent penalties" for some aircraft. You could accept Calsir's point that combat ended when the combatants lost sufficient altitude (an accurate and highly valid point). Or, you could accept my point that fuel was not a primary issue in the vast majority of World War I aerial combats. Or, you can just keep wringing you hands and repeating the same meaningless "German aircraft had less fuel" line.

If you don't like the idea - fine! Play the original version. Just step back and let the site's developers try for something better.

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Posting elapsed timePosted bySubject

18years 294days Nick [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days DBurkeG Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 294days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Pirolo1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 294days BazJP Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 294days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days litehoof Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days docmortand Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 294days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 293days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 293days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Galinette Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days darken Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days dcr66 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days imdog Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days warrax Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days JackAubrey Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days ksnake Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days mjk1964 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 293days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 292days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 291days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 291days pokerguy Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 291days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
     18years 290days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
      18years 289days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
       18years 289days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
        18years 289days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
         18years 289days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
          18years 288days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days BlackSheep Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days jesmith29 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 293days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 293days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days wetty11 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Nick Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 291days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 290days sbadranga Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days wulfe Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days Killer1 Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Impailer Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Bombadil Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 291days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 292days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days gugliandalf Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days TXWard Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 288days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 289days teramaze Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 288days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 288days Regis Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 290days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 289days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
18years 289days Templars Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
 18years 288days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
  18years 288days Tornade Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
   18years 287days Calsir Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
    18years 286days SteveMartin Re: [BM][IDEAS] 30, 40, 50 of fuel
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18years 285days Nick Message for ksnake
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18years 286days saltylog [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
18years 286days pokerguy Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
 18years 286days saltylog Re: [BM][SCE] Killing grounds
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