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City:North of San Fransisco US
Personal Data:Male, born: January 19 1962
HomePage or other cool site:http://www.kongregate.com
Membership23years 138days ago.
Last Login2years 340days ago.
Last Move11years 178days ago.
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Message header
Area/Game:Blue Max
Topic:Rules
Subject:Re: Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
Posted by: DBurkeG - 18years 316days ago.
Message text
HeadMMoid wrote:
TXWard wrote:

Unless you know what the pilot instructions were for the Fokker D.VII, shouldn't apples be compared to apples? The "effective flying time" for the S.E.5a was 1-1/2 hrs., that of the Fokker D.VII was 1 hr. This gives the S.E.5a a 150% advantage over the D.VII, which is even better than the 140% in the game.

I originally came here to learn how to play because I was getting into Canvas Eagles - a game based on Blue Max using miniatures and altitude rules. In CE, ammunition is tracked like fuel, but the fuel boxes are the same as in BM. I disagree that the fuel boxes as shown are a problem, but that's just me.

My wording was inconsistent in the use of "effective flying time". I should have been more clear in indicating that both aircraft (and most similar aircraft) were expected to spend about one hour in the combat zone, regardless of their total endurance. That, however, is no longer what is important.

The problem that is emerging more clearly to me now is that I have been trying to work within and suggest modifications to a fundamentally flawed system. The fuel rules are an arbitrary and historically inaccurate method for controlling game length. I was seeking a way, within the existing rules, to produce more historically consistent games; games without the inaccurate restrictions on many (typically German) aircraft due to their fuel values being based on their maximum flight endurance rather than the way actual combats occurred. Attempting to justify changes based on historical data rather than historical events was a mistake, and I should thank Calsir for putting his finger on the heart of the problem - "Effective flight time is not effective combat time. They have nothing to do with each other."

Unfortunately, without a major rewrite of the rules (which I would neither advocate nor expect), there is still only one way to bring the game somewhat more into line with its historical background, and that is to increase the amount of fuel on the low-fuel aircraft.

While you, and obviously others may enjoy the tactical problems presented by the fuel rules (and that is just fine), those rules simply do not begin to reflect the reality of the combat which the game is supposed to represent. Although Blue Max is only a very, very rough "simulation" (to use that word very loosely) of World War I aerial combat, I personally would prefer that it be no more inaccurate than necessary.


Sorry if I missed your comment on it.... Did you ever check out Phil Halls posts about Blue Max? I did bring the topic forward, and it should be within the first few pages of the forum.

You seem to have noticed what I was thinking of when I first read your post days ago, and that is that changing the fuel rules, or using ammo rules as others have suggested, or similar modifications, would change the game quite a bit. Full re-write or not, it would become something of a different game. Personnally, I have hoped for altitude, or campaigns that included increased pilot stats.


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Posting elapsed timePosted bySubject

18years 320days Killer1 [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days FENRIS Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days SteveMartin Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 18years 319days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
  18years 319days redwom Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
  18years 319days SteveMartin Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days FENRIS Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days Ray_Collishaw Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days warrax Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days gugliandalf Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 18years 318days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days Zif Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days imdog Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 312days Killer1 Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 312days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days Wishgamer Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 320days warrax Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 18years 319days Regis Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
  18years 313days tyree Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days Swartz Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days Capt-Tuttle Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days TnT Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days FENRIS Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 18years 319days docmortand Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days rainbow Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days BlackSheep Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 319days tyree Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 18years 319days Calsir Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 18years 319days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
  18years 318days tyree Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
   18years 318days Zif Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
   18years 318days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
   18years 317days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
   18years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
    18years 317days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
     18years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
      18years 317days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
       18years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
        18years 317days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         18years 316days Calsir Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         18years 316days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         18years 316days teramaze Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         18years 316days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
          18years 315days Calsir Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
           18years 315days teramaze Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
           18years 315days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
            18years 315days Calsir Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
           18years 314days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
            18years 314days Calsir Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
             18years 314days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         18years 316days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         18years 316days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
         18years 316days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
          18years 316days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
           18years 316days TXWard Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
           18years 316days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
            18years 316days DBurkeG Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
             18years 316days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
   18years 317days HeadMMoid Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
18years 317days Bombadil Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 18years 317days ksnake Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
 18years 316days tyree Re: [BM][RULES] Making Fuel same for ALL in Blue Max. Serious thought here.
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18years 312days Rico71 [BM][OT] Umm...am I the Rico in this game?
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